[7/6/2011 4:58:01 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Hello?
[7/6/2011 4:58:28 PM] graffist448: hello
[7/6/2011 4:59:08 PM] dv257_capn_dave: New to this Skype thing. Its basically just an IM?
[7/6/2011 4:59:34 PM] graffist448: yea
[7/6/2011 4:59:39 PM] dv257_capn_dave: cool enough
[7/6/2011 4:59:43 PM] graffist448: you can voice chat
[7/6/2011 4:59:44 PM] graffist448: video chat
[7/6/2011 5:00:09 PM] graffist448: even share the screen of another persons computer
[7/6/2011 5:00:23 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay. doe that cost extra?
[7/6/2011 5:00:25 PM] dv257_capn_dave: does
[7/6/2011 5:00:30 PM] graffist448: nope
[7/6/2011 5:00:31 PM] graffist448: freeeee
[7/6/2011 5:00:44 PM] dv257_capn_dave: they say those are the best things in life
[7/6/2011 5:00:57 PM] graffist448: yep
[7/6/2011 5:01:02 PM] graffist448: fo sho
[7/6/2011 5:01:16 PM] dv257_capn_dave: so where are you located on this round planet?
[7/6/2011 5:01:24 PM] graffist448: Florida
[7/6/2011 5:01:25 PM] graffist448: lol
[7/6/2011 5:01:28 PM] graffist448: south florida
[7/6/2011 5:01:43 PM] dv257_capn_dave: the panhandle or the main part?
[7/6/2011 5:01:48 PM] dv257_capn_dave: nevermind
[7/6/2011 5:01:53 PM] graffist448: east coast
[7/6/2011 5:02:03 PM] dv257_capn_dave: so we are in the same time zone. I am in Pittsburgh area
[7/6/2011 5:02:26 PM] graffist448: ah nice
[7/6/2011 5:02:43 PM] dv257_capn_dave: so about this liberation stuff
[7/6/2011 5:03:16 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I am afraid I am one of those whose head is full of the right answers
[7/6/2011 5:03:41 PM] dv257_capn_dave: but still can't see it
[7/6/2011 5:04:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: the RT folks are always saying look. How does one go about doing that.
[7/6/2011 5:05:32 PM] dv257_capn_dave: obviously the "self" cannot be seen with the eyes
[7/6/2011 5:06:14 PM] dv257_capn_dave: or tasted, smelt, heard or felt. But it seems to be there all the same.
[7/6/2011 5:06:37 PM] graffist448: mhm
[7/6/2011 5:06:55 PM] dv257_capn_dave: screaming in the head and laying out BS 24 X 7
[7/6/2011 5:07:39 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I'll shut up now. I really want to see this. cause I am tired of all the BS, others and especially "mine"
[7/6/2011 5:07:55 PM] graffist448: ok good
[7/6/2011 5:08:15 PM] graffist448: just give me a second and We'll talk about this for as long as you've got time today
[7/6/2011 5:08:20 PM] graffist448: and then again later on if need be
[7/6/2011 5:08:23 PM] dv257_capn_dave: kk
[7/6/2011 5:27:18 PM] graffist448: ok backj
[7/6/2011 5:27:23 PM] graffist448: sorry I took so long
[7/6/2011 5:27:28 PM] dv257_capn_dave: still here
[7/6/2011 5:27:34 PM] graffist448: ok cool
[7/6/2011 5:27:36 PM] graffist448: so
[7/6/2011 5:27:40 PM] graffist448: the way this works is like this
[7/6/2011 5:27:42 PM] graffist448: well
[7/6/2011 5:27:43 PM] graffist448: first
[7/6/2011 5:27:57 PM] graffist448: I want to say that I'm impressed with where you're at now
[7/6/2011 5:28:14 PM] graffist448: your effort and the level of clarity to understand that you need to know how to 'see'
[7/6/2011 5:28:32 PM] graffist448: instead of being distracted and worried about a million other nonsense things
[7/6/2011 5:29:07 PM] graffist448: What we mean by looking and seeing is when you look and find a definitive answer for yourself
[7/6/2011 5:29:31 PM] graffist448: the hardest thing for us is to accept that spoon feeding people this understanding will never ever suffice
[7/6/2011 5:29:38 PM] graffist448: you MUST work it out yourself.
[7/6/2011 5:29:55 PM] dv257_capn_dave: yeah.... having the answer means nothing if you can't do the math.
[7/6/2011 5:30:12 PM] graffist448: I've developed a method that will, as long as your working it out properly, allow you to work it out with me at your side to giude you simultaneous
[7/6/2011 5:30:14 PM] graffist448: ly
[7/6/2011 5:30:20 PM] graffist448: exactly!
[7/6/2011 5:30:39 PM] graffist448: so
[7/6/2011 5:30:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: great
[7/6/2011 5:31:02 PM] graffist448: so I'm going to ask you a string of questions
[7/6/2011 5:31:23 PM] graffist448: I want you to think about the answer really hard
[7/6/2011 5:31:31 PM] graffist448: to give me answers that are true
[7/6/2011 5:31:41 PM] graffist448: like mathematics
[7/6/2011 5:31:52 PM] graffist448: 1+1=2 no matter who thinks about it
[7/6/2011 5:32:08 PM] graffist448: and to check it
[7/6/2011 5:32:22 PM] graffist448: imagine everyone you care about on their knees
[7/6/2011 5:32:26 PM] graffist448: facing you
[7/6/2011 5:32:34 PM] graffist448: crying and shaking in fear
[7/6/2011 5:32:55 PM] graffist448: because if you give an answer that you aren't sure about
[7/6/2011 5:33:04 PM] graffist448: they will all be shot in the back of the head
[7/6/2011 5:33:32 PM] graffist448: that's how confident I want you to be about your answers
[7/6/2011 5:33:33 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay ... cruel but it brings focus
[7/6/2011 5:33:49 PM] graffist448: so imagine that now
[7/6/2011 5:33:57 PM] graffist448: to get a good feeling for it
[7/6/2011 5:34:07 PM] graffist448: let me know when you feel a pit in your stomach
[7/6/2011 5:35:11 PM] dv257_capn_dave: alright you have my attention and this isn;t a game. Serious stuff
[7/6/2011 5:35:42 PM] graffist448: yes
[7/6/2011 5:35:53 PM] graffist448: take your time when you answer
[7/6/2011 5:36:00 PM] graffist448: i don't care if it take an hour
[7/6/2011 5:36:07 PM] graffist448: I'll be here
[7/6/2011 5:36:47 PM] graffist448: physically speaking, what are thoughts?
[7/6/2011 5:37:25 PM] dv257_capn_dave: a bit nervous ... but clear and focused
[7/6/2011 5:37:45 PM] graffist448: if its a science question that you haven't learned then just say so
[7/6/2011 5:38:06 PM] dv257_capn_dave: kk no guessing
[7/6/2011 5:38:42 PM] graffist448: exactly
[7/6/2011 5:39:26 PM] graffist448: no philosophy, no guessing, no "if" "Maybe" or "I think.."...
[7/6/2011 5:39:54 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I'll try
[7/6/2011 5:40:13 PM] graffist448: You can do this
[7/6/2011 5:40:42 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay I am ready
[7/6/2011 5:41:01 PM] graffist448: ok. So what are thoughts.. physically speaking?
[7/6/2011 5:42:05 PM] dv257_capn_dave: chemical/electrical processes in the brain
[7/6/2011 5:42:16 PM] graffist448: excellent
[7/6/2011 5:42:41 PM] graffist448: what about emotions?
[7/6/2011 5:48:29 PM] dv257_capn_dave: The body receives stimuli through the senses. The brain interprets the stimuli and compares it to stored past stimuli and triggers a response to various glands. These glands release chemicals into the blood stream which cause certain bio-chemical responses to the various subsystems in the body. Which in turn produces another stimuli which the brain interprets. A multiple feedback system.
[7/6/2011 5:48:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: physically speaking
[7/6/2011 5:50:20 PM] dv257_capn_dave: We learn over time to lable the response to the glandular chemical release things like "love", "fear" "hate" "anger" etc
[7/6/2011 5:50:40 PM] graffist448: beautiful
[7/6/2011 5:51:19 PM] graffist448: What is the difference between subjective reality and objective reality?
[7/6/2011 5:51:37 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Let me think on this one...
[7/6/2011 6:08:36 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Okay ...
[7/6/2011 6:09:01 PM] dv257_capn_dave: My perceptive organs (eyes/ears/taste buds/skin surface and nose) receive stimuli from the world/universe around me. This stimuli is sent to the brain, where it is compared to past recorded stimuli (memory) and interpreted by combining the past experience and the present one. That is subjective reality. It is what I see. What I hear etc as interpreted by my brain. ...
[7/6/2011 6:09:43 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Some philosophers and almost all scientist say that that world/universe is objectively out there with or without a perceiver. That the universe is. And it is what it is. That is objective truth. ...
[7/6/2011 6:10:05 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Oops I defined objective with objectively ...
[7/6/2011 6:10:41 PM] dv257_capn_dave: .... say that the world/univers is actually outh there with or without a perceiver ...
[7/6/2011 6:11:49 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I don' want to get hung up on this so shut me up if I wander.... but ...
[7/6/2011 6:12:15 PM] dv257_capn_dave: ... objective truth cannot be proven. All I have is the perceptions and experiences I have collected.
[7/6/2011 6:14:27 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Objective truth can be induced by comparing what others tell me about their perceptions and experiences to my own And the similarities suggest an objective universe ...
[7/6/2011 6:15:22 PM] dv257_capn_dave: The more samples and comparisons made the closer we can approach certainty but never absolute certainty. ...
[7/6/2011 6:15:59 PM] dv257_capn_dave: When push comes to shove ... all I know for certain is what I perceive.
[7/6/2011 6:16:34 PM] dv257_capn_dave: ANd maybe not that ... a few miligrams of certain chemicals and the whole universe changes.
[7/6/2011 6:17:23 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Okay you can shoot now.
[7/6/2011 6:20:17 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Short answer: Subtive Truth is what I perceive. Objective Truth is what is actually there.
[7/6/2011 6:29:59 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Hey my family is screaming for me to make dinner. Will you be around a bit later?
[7/6/2011 6:40:55 PM] dv257_capn_dave: never mind .. tossed a large Caesar Salad and they are happy ...
[7/6/2011 6:41:34 PM] graffist448: alrighty, lemmi read this
[7/6/2011 6:43:37 PM] graffist448: hahaha
[7/6/2011 6:43:41 PM] graffist448: I'll be here
[7/6/2011 6:43:43 PM] graffist448: ok
[7/6/2011 6:43:45 PM] graffist448: great answer
[7/6/2011 6:44:30 PM] graffist448: except for the part about not being able to prove objective reality. But we'll talk about that later. In short, everything is high and low probabilities
[7/6/2011 6:44:50 PM] graffist448: when something is 99.999% likely to happen and be so
[7/6/2011 6:45:09 PM] graffist448: then yea.. its probably so
[7/6/2011 6:45:58 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Yep. We can be very certain that the moon will not crash into the earth tonight. Not absolutely certain, but reasonably certain
[7/6/2011 6:46:10 PM] graffist448: mhm
[7/6/2011 6:46:14 PM] graffist448: ok cool
[7/6/2011 6:46:57 PM] graffist448: what are some elements that influence values?
[7/6/2011 6:47:20 PM] dv257_capn_dave: define values please
[7/6/2011 6:48:08 PM] graffist448: values as in what you think is right and wrong.
[7/6/2011 6:49:14 PM] dv257_capn_dave: limit it to ethics then?
[7/6/2011 6:49:45 PM] dv257_capn_dave: or etend it to esthetics
[7/6/2011 6:50:00 PM] dv257_capn_dave: extend it to esthetics
[7/6/2011 6:50:24 PM] graffist448: just keep it simple
[7/6/2011 6:50:59 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay .. searching for a true statement ...
[7/6/2011 6:51:08 PM] graffist448: good
[7/6/2011 7:07:13 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Obviously a man's upbringin is going to greatly influence his ethics. Parents intentionally and unintentionally pass on their own values as they rear their children and teach them life skills.
[7/6/2011 7:09:05 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Society puts a great deal of pressure on a person to conform to its broader value system. This is at all levels of society i.e. small peer groups all the way through local area, national level and in this day and age, international and global level.
[7/6/2011 7:10:28 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Circumstances also influences a man as he determines what is right or wrong. It is generally accepted a immoral to eat other people. But, the Donner Party and those folks that crashed in the Andes eventually came to a different conclusion.
[7/6/2011 7:11:05 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Genetics ... hmmm ....
[7/6/2011 7:12:17 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I am sure the genetic makeup of our species has a fair amount of influence but I am having difficulty finding a specific example.
[7/6/2011 7:12:48 PM] graffist448: thats ok
[7/6/2011 7:12:55 PM] graffist448: those answers are perfect
[7/6/2011 7:14:01 PM] graffist448: what are some elements that influence a self concept?
[7/6/2011 7:16:40 PM] dv257_capn_dave: We are getting closer to the core of things here...
[7/6/2011 7:17:34 PM] dv257_capn_dave: are you asking about what influences our judging our self concept or the actual core of self concept?
[7/6/2011 7:18:45 PM] graffist448: the actual core of it
[7/6/2011 7:18:55 PM] dv257_capn_dave: the tougher one ... of course.
[7/6/2011 7:19:07 PM] dv257_capn_dave: let me dig a bit
[7/6/2011 7:28:53 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I dug back into memory to find the first memory of "me". ..
[7/6/2011 7:29:28 PM] graffist448: try not to get into personal details
[7/6/2011 7:29:41 PM] dv257_capn_dave: ... its fuzzy, but I (?) was already a toddler
[7/6/2011 7:29:43 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay
[7/6/2011 7:29:44 PM] graffist448: remember to focus on identifying elements
[7/6/2011 7:29:53 PM] dv257_capn_dave: elements okay ...
[7/6/2011 7:32:26 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I would say the same elements influence the forming and maintenance of a self concept. ..
[7/6/2011 7:33:29 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Genetics definitely. A man's phyiscal makeup is going to be used to define what he is.
[7/6/2011 7:34:11 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Parental input is a big influence
[7/6/2011 7:34:21 PM] graffist448: excellent keep going
[7/6/2011 7:35:05 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Culture and society put their pressures and information in to be processed
[7/6/2011 7:36:18 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Circumstances as well. If one has access to education (records of the races past) they will have a different self concept than a person raised in a secluded society ...
[7/6/2011 7:36:24 PM] dv257_capn_dave: wow ....
[7/6/2011 7:36:57 PM] graffist448: yes yes yes. Your doing freakin fantastic
[7/6/2011 7:37:00 PM] graffist448: I loooove it
[7/6/2011 7:38:54 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I am seeing that the concept of self really isn't a given, but grows and changes over time. Dependent on input and the same feedback interpretation by the brain
[7/6/2011 7:39:29 PM] dv257_capn_dave: hold on ....
[7/6/2011 7:41:54 PM] dv257_capn_dave: this can't be it can it?
[7/6/2011 7:42:21 PM] graffist448: keep identifying elements
[7/6/2011 7:42:33 PM] graffist448: stay focused
[7/6/2011 7:42:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay focusing back ...
[7/6/2011 7:42:58 PM] dv257_capn_dave: the self concept itelf influences itself
[7/6/2011 7:44:13 PM] dv257_capn_dave: information comes in. It is compared by the brain to other information. EMotions happen or don't happen and the self concept adjusts.
[7/6/2011 7:44:24 PM] dv257_capn_dave: or is adjusted.
[7/6/2011 7:46:02 PM] dv257_capn_dave: hell emotions effect a self concept. If one is angry they perceive themselves as on thing and another completely different if they are blissed out
[7/6/2011 7:47:06 PM] graffist448: Loving it! Keep digging!
[7/6/2011 7:48:34 PM] dv257_capn_dave: It seems to be an ephemeral thing changing and adjusting to every influence
[7/6/2011 7:50:34 PM] graffist448: what are some other elements?
[7/6/2011 7:54:18 PM] dv257_capn_dave: The body influences it, if the body is tired or restless or energized.
[7/6/2011 7:54:31 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Diseased or healthy
[7/6/2011 7:54:45 PM] graffist448: How do memories influence it?
[7/6/2011 7:56:16 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Memories are recalled to be compared to new input/information
[7/6/2011 7:57:06 PM] dv257_capn_dave: feedback emotions and adjustment as necessary
[7/6/2011 7:58:09 PM] dv257_capn_dave: They either reinforce old self concepts or adjust the concepts to fit the new input
[7/6/2011 7:58:35 PM] dv257_capn_dave: It seems the older one gets the more they reinforce.
[7/6/2011 7:59:33 PM] dv257_capn_dave: wait ...
[7/6/2011 8:03:37 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I am trying to find "my" self concept to check something. I know you told me to not make it personal.
[7/6/2011 8:03:55 PM] dv257_capn_dave: but its all I have to compare with.
[7/6/2011 8:04:59 PM] graffist448: thats ok
[7/6/2011 8:05:13 PM] graffist448: do that
[7/6/2011 8:05:30 PM] dv257_capn_dave: All I find are memories
[7/6/2011 8:05:47 PM] graffist448: expand on that
[7/6/2011 8:08:29 PM] dv257_capn_dave: It seems "my" self concept is made up of a hodge podge of thoughts and recorded sensory input in the brain. (Not sure of the science of how the brain does that.)
[7/6/2011 8:09:15 PM] dv257_capn_dave: It really isn't a thing, just a hash of thoughts and memories.
[7/6/2011 8:09:38 PM] dv257_capn_dave: not even organized in a particularly cognizant way
[7/6/2011 8:10:08 PM] dv257_capn_dave: gotta stop typing and look some more ...oh ...
[7/6/2011 8:10:19 PM] dv257_capn_dave: that's what looking means ... lol
[7/6/2011 8:10:42 PM] graffist448: lol
[7/6/2011 8:10:44 PM] graffist448: ok yes
[7/6/2011 8:10:51 PM] graffist448: your doing fuckin fantastic
[7/6/2011 8:10:56 PM] graffist448: ok next q
[7/6/2011 8:11:10 PM] graffist448: where is the self concept physically located?
[7/6/2011 8:12:34 PM] dv257_capn_dave: aat first blush I would say, the head, but let me check a little bit.
[7/6/2011 8:12:44 PM] graffist448: ok
[7/6/2011 8:19:11 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I cannot find a physical location.
[7/6/2011 8:19:47 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I wanted to check to see if it could also include the body and its extremities, but found that was just a memory
[7/6/2011 8:20:38 PM] dv257_capn_dave: then I focused back on the head. Self concept seems to be a thought or a combination of thoughts and memories.
[7/6/2011 8:21:34 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Again I am uncertain of the science of how the brain stores memories. Is that physical or chemical/electrical. Dunno
[7/6/2011 8:22:03 PM] graffist448: thats ok
[7/6/2011 8:22:16 PM] dv257_capn_dave: whatever, its brain activity
[7/6/2011 8:24:35 PM] graffist448: yesss
[7/6/2011 8:24:36 PM] graffist448: perfect
[7/6/2011 8:24:37 PM] graffist448: now
[7/6/2011 8:24:41 PM] graffist448: who drives the brain?
[7/6/2011 8:25:03 PM] graffist448: I'll be back. I have to run to the store really quick. Should be back in like 15 20 minutes
[7/6/2011 8:25:23 PM] dv257_capn_dave: okay. I'll dig and look until you return
[7/6/2011 9:46:48 PM] dv257_capn_dave: guess you aren't back yet
[7/6/2011 11:23:48 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Well, I have to go. I will try to catch you later Thanks for the walk thru.
[7/6/2011 11:24:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: BTW What drives the brain? Nothing, nobody, brain activity just happens, 'cause that what brains do.
[7/6/2011 11:24:51 PM] dv257_capn_dave: catchya later.
[7/6/2011 11:25:07 PM] graffist448: hey
[7/6/2011 11:25:07 PM] dv257_capn_dave: And again Thanks!
[7/6/2011 11:25:10 PM] graffist448: sorry I was so long
[7/6/2011 11:25:19 PM] dv257_capn_dave: oh hi.
[7/6/2011 11:25:54 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I figured you got caught up in something and was gonna sign off.
[7/6/2011 11:26:01 PM] graffist448: yea I did
[7/6/2011 11:26:03 PM] graffist448: sorry about that
[7/6/2011 11:26:15 PM] dv257_capn_dave: no need to apologize life happens
[7/6/2011 11:26:20 PM] graffist448: =)
[7/6/2011 11:26:26 PM] graffist448: so who drives the brain?
[7/6/2011 11:26:41 PM] dv257_capn_dave: from what I could see nobody.
[7/6/2011 11:26:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Brain activity happens
[7/6/2011 11:27:10 PM] graffist448: would you be the lives of all the people who are important to you on that?
[7/6/2011 11:27:57 PM] dv257_capn_dave: looking again since you reminded me of the stakes. B^)
[7/6/2011 11:29:26 PM] dv257_capn_dave: yeah it seems to just happen. It does what it does, just like the stomach or any other body part
[7/6/2011 11:32:05 PM] dv257_capn_dave: Sometimes it can be brought to focus like your questions do, or other sensory input, but what it does and how it does it, just happens.
[7/6/2011 11:33:12 PM] dv257_capn_dave: And thoughts chemical electical inpulses?... boy howdy... they really just happen. Out of nowhere sometimes
[7/6/2011 11:33:31 PM] graffist448: mhm
[7/6/2011 11:33:36 PM] graffist448: so
[7/6/2011 11:33:53 PM] graffist448: how has your clarity changed from before we talked today and before hand?
[7/6/2011 11:38:54 PM] dv257_capn_dave: The self concept is just brain activity. And the brain activity is just driving along doing its thing with nobody at the wheel
[7/6/2011 11:39:22 PM] dv257_capn_dave: then nobody is driving self
[7/6/2011 11:39:51 PM] graffist448: expand on that
[7/6/2011 11:39:56 PM] dv257_capn_dave: yeah ...
[7/6/2011 11:40:13 PM] dv257_capn_dave: oh ...
[7/6/2011 11:40:23 PM] dv257_capn_dave: self is just a thought....
[7/6/2011 11:40:48 PM] dv257_capn_dave: thoughts are not anything but electrical chemical reactions in the brain.
[7/6/2011 11:41:19 PM] dv257_capn_dave: they may or may not be about anything real.
[7/6/2011 11:41:48 PM] dv257_capn_dave: A thought about my truck is just a thought. But my truck is real
[7/6/2011 11:41:59 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I can see it. Perceive it,
[7/6/2011 11:43:46 PM] dv257_capn_dave: But all self is is the thought. No actual content. Unlocatable and not tangible.
[7/6/2011 11:44:19 PM] graffist448: mhm
[7/6/2011 11:44:23 PM] graffist448: keep going
[7/6/2011 11:44:36 PM] dv257_capn_dave: what changes?
[7/6/2011 11:45:32 PM] dv257_capn_dave: the thought of self is real, but self itself isn't
[7/6/2011 11:46:33 PM] dv257_capn_dave: like the thought of a green cat. I can think one. I can even conjur an image in my imagination but it isn;t reallly there.
[7/6/2011 11:47:54 PM] graffist448: fantastic
[7/6/2011 11:48:00 PM] graffist448: are you free?
[7/6/2011 11:48:04 PM] graffist448: what do you think?
[7/6/2011 11:49:06 PM] graffist448: Mind if I call you Mike?
[7/6/2011 11:49:10 PM] graffist448: oops
[7/6/2011 11:49:12 PM] dv257_capn_dave: The thought of self is still there. But I can now "see" that all it is brain actrivity
[7/6/2011 11:49:13 PM] graffist448: wrong person
[7/6/2011 11:49:14 PM] graffist448: lol
[7/6/2011 11:49:38 PM] dv257_capn_dave: yesterday upon the stair, I saw a man who wasn't there.
[7/6/2011 11:49:47 PM] graffist448: haha
[7/6/2011 11:49:57 PM] graffist448: what do you mean the thought of the self is still there
[7/6/2011 11:50:26 PM] dv257_capn_dave: oh wow...
[7/6/2011 11:51:15 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I mean I can think of self if I try, but it really isn't anything at all is it?
[7/6/2011 11:51:33 PM] graffist448: just a thought. What else could it be?
[7/6/2011 11:52:08 PM] dv257_capn_dave: absolutely nothing
[7/6/2011 11:52:53 PM] graffist448: how certain are you about all this?
[7/6/2011 11:54:04 PM] dv257_capn_dave: at this moment, if I look I see nothing.
[7/6/2011 11:56:20 PM] dv257_capn_dave: I am looking at my hands typing, at my cat sleeping on the corner of my desk. (he's not green btw)
[7/6/2011 11:57:06 PM] dv257_capn_dave: but when I look for a self I see an empty thought.
[7/6/2011 11:58:15 PM] graffist448: compare you level of clarity about it on a scale of 1-10 from before and after. Like before it was a # and now its a #
[12:02:58 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I am trying to see a difference.. Before I knew the answer was there is no me. Now I can see the absence of a me.
[12:04:39 AM] dv257_capn_dave: A numerical diffenrence ... call the head knowledge a 4 and now I see a 10
[12:04:57 AM] dv257_capn_dave: but what has changed?
[12:07:57 AM] graffist448: You tell me
[12:08:06 AM] graffist448: speak your mind
[12:08:08 AM] dv257_capn_dave: But I look and I see the concept of me is empty
[12:09:39 AM] dv257_capn_dave: i can actually sense the empty hole which was once filled with ... what?
[12:09:57 AM] dv257_capn_dave: the imagination of something not there.
[12:13:07 AM] dv257_capn_dave: No, its really not there.
[12:14:31 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Wow, it never was there. Just a boogey man.
[12:14:45 AM] dv257_capn_dave: LoL
[12:14:50 AM] graffist448: haha
[12:15:37 AM] dv257_capn_dave: how the hell, did it ever control so much of ... oh crap I'll just use the word, me.
[12:15:56 AM] graffist448: lol
[12:17:32 AM] dv257_capn_dave: The more I stare at it the clearer it is. There really isn
[12:17:39 AM] dv257_capn_dave: t anything there
[12:18:18 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Laugh, cry what do you do? Okay the clarity factor really is pegged out
[12:18:53 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I am free.
[12:19:00 AM] graffist448: =)
[12:19:07 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I can say that with certainty. I see it now
[12:19:22 AM] graffist448: fuck yea
[12:19:36 AM] graffist448: Mind if I blog this convo?
[12:19:46 AM] graffist448: I'll change the name to whatever you like
[12:20:04 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Its like a freaking shadow on the wall that terrified you until you see its really a coat. Then its just a joke
[12:20:28 AM] dv257_capn_dave: sure thing.
[12:20:32 AM] graffist448: haha yea it is
[12:20:38 AM] dv257_capn_dave: goddamn so simple
[12:21:06 AM] graffist448: I know! haha and yet it's taken humanity hundreds if not thousands of years to figure out how to get this across to people
[12:22:12 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I feel like Homer Simpson ... DUOH!!!
[12:22:43 AM] dv257_capn_dave: But I am a free Homer
[12:22:53 AM] graffist448: hahaha
[12:23:03 AM] dv257_capn_dave: The grip is gone.
[12:24:03 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Sure use this convo if you can. There really isn't anyone to hide anything now.
[12:24:18 AM] graffist448: sounds good
[12:24:36 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Thanks for walking me through this
[12:24:37 AM] graffist448: keep me updating on any new insightsa you have
[12:24:43 AM] graffist448: it was a pleasure
[12:24:58 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I have some exploring to do. More looking....
[12:25:02 AM] graffist448: there's going to be lots of them
[12:25:13 AM] graffist448: it would even be good to open your own blog on wordpress
[12:25:31 AM] dv257_capn_dave: see how it all fits together
[12:26:07 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I might do that.
[12:26:21 AM] graffist448: yeah if you do let me know
[12:26:46 AM] dv257_capn_dave: After I see how it all works together.
[12:27:18 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Wow it really does change how you see things
[12:27:29 AM] graffist448: haha yea it does
[12:27:39 AM] graffist448: its amazing
[12:27:39 AM] graffist448: also
[12:27:49 AM] graffist448: check out 1 eckhart Tolle
[12:28:00 AM] graffist448: and 2 pick up a book on chrmistry
[12:28:04 AM] graffist448: or biology
[12:28:17 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Tolle the Now dude right?
[12:28:22 AM] graffist448: biology is badass from this place
[12:28:25 AM] graffist448: yea
[12:28:26 AM] graffist448: haha
[12:28:28 AM] graffist448: "the power of now"
[12:28:41 AM] graffist448: the Tao Te Ching is free online and is dynamite
[12:28:49 AM] graffist448: makes 1000000 more sense now
[12:28:53 AM] graffist448: and its just awesome
[12:28:58 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Okay, Yeah I have a few copies. Gonna have to read it again. LoL
[12:29:21 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I imagine its more than a book of nifty sayings now.
[12:29:36 AM] graffist448: oh yea
[12:29:55 AM] graffist448: its like reality steroids
[12:29:56 AM] dv257_capn_dave: THis is so awsome.
[12:32:26 AM] graffist448: yes it is lol
[12:33:07 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Everything is just as it was, but totally different at the same time. Did that make sense?
[12:34:40 AM] graffist448: =)
[12:34:51 AM] graffist448: it doesn't even matter what anyone were to tell you
[12:35:00 AM] graffist448: it's undeniable now
[12:35:04 AM] graffist448: its fucking truth
[12:35:10 AM] graffist448: rock solid
[12:35:36 AM] dv257_capn_dave: nope. Before I thought it. Now its living
[12:36:54 AM] dv257_capn_dave: its right there in front of me blasting a hole through every delusion that was there as I bring it up
[12:37:17 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Its frightening and reassuring at the same time.
[12:37:33 AM] dv257_capn_dave: the truth.
[12:37:41 AM] dv257_capn_dave: screw everything else
[12:38:18 AM] graffist448: haha yeepp
[12:38:24 AM] graffist448: this is awesome
[12:38:29 AM] graffist448: I love when people see for the first time
[12:38:32 AM] graffist448: there's no going back
[12:38:37 AM] graffist448: and its just awesomness
[12:38:52 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Wow you're right. It cannot be unseen.
[12:39:15 AM] graffist448: make that blog
[12:39:29 AM] graffist448: you'll want to keep these things written down
[12:39:51 AM] graffist448: and these thoughts will astound philosophers and deep thinkers because of the ease of clarity you have now
[12:40:01 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Okay. I'll start something. See where it goes. Nothing to fear now, eh?
[12:40:07 AM] graffist448: its so easy and yet incomprehandable to people who dont see this
[12:40:27 AM] graffist448: na, nothing to fear my friend
Wow and it ain't mystical either. Not a damned bit of mysticism in this.
[12:41:47 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Its more like throwing a light switch
[12:42:04 AM] dv257_capn_dave: and seeing the damned chair you tripped on in the dark
[12:42:35 AM] dv257_capn_dave: and knowing that you will always see it now that the light is on
[12:43:18 AM] dv257_capn_dave: how freaking simple. LoL
[12:44:52 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Thanks again. For showing me how to look. Then pushing me to the point where I had to.
[12:45:14 AM] graffist448: my pleasure
[12:45:48 AM] graffist448: stop saying awesome stuff haha get the awesomeness onto your blog so people will get excited and intrigued
[12:46:01 AM] graffist448: they'll most definitely ask you to help them see it too
[12:46:12 AM] graffist448: and I"ve been writing out instructions on my blog on how to do it
[12:46:21 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I am going to sign off now and go explore a bit before hitting the sack.
[12:46:24 AM] graffist448: because explaining it head on doesn't work as effectively
[12:46:35 AM] graffist448: ok, sounds good
[12:47:35 AM] dv257_capn_dave: Okay, I'll keep on reading your blog. Talk to you some more and do what I have to.
[12:47:47 AM] dv257_capn_dave: I've started a notebook
[12:48:22 AM] graffist448: awesome
[12:48:51 AM] dv257_capn_dave: kk. well goodnight and thanks again for being available.
[12:49:01 AM] graffist448: yep my pleasure
[12:49:06 AM] dv257_capn_dave: byes
[12:49:13 AM] graffist448: see ya