Saturday, July 2, 2011


[7/1/2011 2:13:33 AM] GOOTS Smith: 2:12am. Hmm. Are ya there?
[7/1/2011 3:42:18 PM] GOOTS Smith: I am here this afternoon, if you're available.
[12:01:49 AM] GOOTS Smith: And I am here now, if you are.
[12:28:17 AM] GOOTS Smith: Sounds like these two lines will get this one into trouble right off the get go.
[1:32:11 AM] graffist448: I'm here
[1:32:30 AM] GOOTS Smith: Hi
[1:32:47 AM] graffist448: he
[1:32:48 AM] graffist448: hey
[1:32:49 AM] graffist448: lol
[1:33:00 AM] graffist448: its 212 am where you are?
[1:33:12 AM] GOOTS Smith: 10:31 west coast of Canada.
[1:33:34 AM] graffist448: oh
[1:33:39 AM] graffist448: its 133 here right now
[1:33:49 AM] GOOTS Smith: Are you available for a session now?
[1:33:52 AM] graffist448: yea
[1:33:57 AM] GOOTS Smith: GREAT
[1:34:01 AM] graffist448: =)
[1:34:36 AM] graffist448: ok first thing I need to tell you is that I'm going to ask you a string of questions
[1:34:41 AM] GOOTS Smith: ok
[1:34:42 AM] graffist448: and before you answer any of them
[1:34:49 AM] graffist448: even if they seem stupidly simple
[1:35:09 AM] graffist448: reevaluate them so that you are 100% certain you are right
[1:36:00 AM] graffist448: As in, the people you love will be massacred with assault rifles if you give an answer that is not true
[1:36:10 AM] graffist448: try to imagin that
[1:36:13 AM] GOOTS Smith: ok
[1:37:14 AM] GOOTS Smith: feelin' nervous now
[1:37:46 AM] graffist448: lol
[1:37:47 AM] graffist448: good
[1:37:55 AM] graffist448: what influences thoughts?
[1:38:00 AM] graffist448: take your time
[1:39:39 AM] GOOTS Smith: other thoughts, memories, beliefs, experiences, perceptions,
[1:40:10 AM] graffist448: what influences beliefs
[1:42:10 AM] GOOTS Smith: beliefs are either reinforced through confirming experiences or thoughts, or confounded or opposed or turned around as a result of new information or experiences which change the belief. Thought there was a pig in the room, turned on the light and there was an aardvark. Who knew!
[1:42:47 AM] graffist448: lol
[1:43:01 AM] graffist448: what influences values
[1:46:43 AM] GOOTS Smith: initially thoughts about what mommy and daddy will consider good. perceptions regarding acceptance by others, peers, etc. However situations can occur where values are ignored in favour of need. Jean Val Jean stealing bread for his family to eat in Les Miserables. People looting who wouldn't normally do so except for the fact that "everybody else is doing it". For me, it often comes down to whether or not I can sleep at night. Can I live with myself if I do the thing I'm considering, which is "on the cusp". Self perception is a big part of it.
[1:47:13 AM] GOOTS Smith: self image
[1:48:02 AM] graffist448: what influences self image?
[1:49:49 AM] GOOTS Smith: reactions of others, bodily sensations (feelings) regarding what is perceived as right and wrong. thoughts. thoughts about others, about feelings. Memories of ridicule, for example. Projections about potential ridicule.
[1:50:11 AM] GOOTS Smith: On the positive side, successes, praise, memories of these.
[1:50:52 AM] graffist448: excellent. This is going very smoothly
[1:51:05 AM] GOOTS Smith: guns still loaded, though, right?
[1:51:18 AM] graffist448: yea
[1:51:18 AM] graffist448: haha
[1:51:20 AM] GOOTS Smith: shit
[1:52:02 AM] graffist448: where do thoughts, memories, beliefs, values...etc exist?
[1:53:17 AM] graffist448: if the question is vague because I wasn't specific enough just give a few possible answers.
[1:55:44 AM] GOOTS Smith: Initially my answer would be "in the mind". But I cannot locate that. It's conceptually a byproduct of the brain, which can be located. Secondarily, my thought is that they exist within my awareness. I am aware of them, in as much as I am aware of my fingers tapping on the keyboard at present. At least they seem as real, often. However, all of these thoughts, memories, beliefs, and values seem to come and go. They are not all accessible at once. (Fuck, that would be overwhelming!).
[1:56:53 AM] GOOTS Smith: There is "the story" that these all exist within the conscious or subconscious mind, but I cannot locate either of these. That would be a story I'm buying into, or not.
[1:57:47 AM] graffist448: thats a freaking carpet bomb of an anwer. I love it!
[1:57:58 AM] GOOTS Smith: hwat does that mean?
[1:58:27 AM] graffist448: means your swinging the bat correctly
[1:58:32 AM] GOOTS Smith: phew
[1:58:50 AM] GOOTS Smith: I don't wanna bullshit here.
[1:59:14 AM] graffist448: physically speaking, what makes awareness possible?
[2:04:35 AM] GOOTS Smith: I can only speculate. Initially my thought was that being alive makes it possible, although I cannot speak for the rocks and the mud. Consciousness is not physical, and even if it was, apparently one can be aware within a coma, so that's out. Having a brain would seem the only logical answer, coupled with but not necessitating sense perceptions (sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell). Helen Keller was aware in spite of the lack of many sense perceptions. I think they're irrelevant. An alive brain.
[2:06:03 AM] graffist448: Booooom. You did it again. I'm really enjoying this. Really. this is a breath of fresh air.
[2:06:33 AM] graffist448: ok.
[2:07:06 AM] graffist448: These things, they exist in the physical brain
[2:07:17 AM] graffist448: what says you?
[2:12:32 AM] GOOTS Smith: I "think" they do. I have learned, in school, that the brain functions as the organ for thought, and thought encompasses memories, beliefs, values, and so forth. However, if I carve open my head and look inside, all I will see is a big gob of gray goop. As such, these things don't exist "physically" in the physical brain. They occur to me in my awareness. And my awareness cannot be located physically within the physical brain either. Just the gray goop. I can watch a t.v. show that explains that these thoughts are the result of synaptic activity blah blah blah but none of that activity looks like the aardvark I have a picture of in my head. That aardvark is a self made image, unreal, but appearing seemingly real.
[2:14:35 AM] graffist448: so what do these things exist as in objective reality?
[2:15:01 AM] GOOTS Smith: where?
[2:15:21 AM] graffist448: what
[2:15:24 AM] graffist448: science 101
[2:16:12 AM] graffist448: you said it
[2:23:08 AM] GOOTS Smith: I have believed that these things exist in "my head". I have created a separation between what's in "my head" and what isn't. I have done this because it appears as though only "I" have exclusive access to what's going on in "my head", as others appear to have exclusive access to their thoughts, beliefs, memories, and so forth in theirs. However, it seems to me that 1) there is little experiential difference between the thought in my head that I'm typing and the actual sound of the keys tapping on the keyboard at the moment, 2) in fact, there is more reality to the keyboard than my thoughts about it and 3) they all seem to appear within my awareness. It's like my thoughts and beliefs and memories and values are actually in the ether. floating in and out like clouds. I cannot locate them exactly. Other than the fact that they certainly appear real - and close.
[2:24:02 AM] GOOTS Smith: or immediate
[2:24:36 AM] GOOTS Smith: most of the time the thoughts are more immediate than the real world!
[2:25:30 AM] graffist448: ok
[2:26:36 AM] graffist448: what drives the working processes of the brain? (working processes of the brain as in what the word 'mind' points to)
[2:27:27 AM] GOOTS Smith: Are you talking about blood and oxygen in the blood and that kind of thing?
[2:28:43 AM] graffist448: sorry
[2:28:44 AM] graffist448: lol
[2:29:04 AM] graffist448: I'm about to rephrase the question and it'll probably sound totally different because in context is pretty much is
[2:29:42 AM] graffist448: how do external stimuli influence the way the mind processes beliefs, thoughts, develops patterns, memories...etc
[2:42:44 AM] GOOTS Smith: When something happens in the real world it can create an impression in the mind. Like a fist going into the sand. For example, I remember hearing a person speak up in a seminar a number of times and after the third or fourth time I labeled that person "stupid". They made an impression on me by their comments. Thereafter, whenever I saw that person enter the room, I saw them through the lens of my judgement, "here comes stupid". This will remain as my "impression/belief/judgement" until such time as they do something to create a Deeper impression. Maybe that person saves my baby from a fire. Thus I see them as heroic, and stupid becomes irrelevant. My belief changes as a result of a deeper, more emotionally impactful experience (than the first). A deeper fist print in the sand. You are specifically speaking about "processes", though. How do external stimuli influence the way the mind PROCESSES beliefs, thoughts, and memories, or how patterns are developed. Does external stimuli influence how these things are PROCESSED by the mind? I think there are TWO possibilities here. In one instance, as in somebody comes up behind me and yells "BOO!", the mind / body reacts without any interference from anywhere. However, if given time, there can be an unnatural, calculating or calculated response that is more self referencing.
[2:45:48 AM] graffist448: ok
[2:46:19 AM] graffist448: what is driving your mind?
[2:47:15 AM] GOOTS Smith: rifles raised...
[2:54:10 AM] GOOTS Smith: I think my mind is being buffetted around by all of the things we've been talking about. Beliefs, judgements, thoughts, external stimuli, memories. Something happens and that triggers and chain reaction of thoughts, associations and so forth. However, as far as what is driving it is concerned ... it seems like a happening. When I look at it, it seems like a happening. And there is the day to day experience of feeling or thinking "I'm thinking..."
[2:55:06 AM] graffist448: who does the mind belong to?
[3:01:50 AM] GOOTS Smith: There is no ownership that I can see. Although I caught myself changing your question to "who does "my" mind belong to"?! Who does THE mind belong to? It seems  like a weird question when put that way. Ownership isn't presumed in the question. It seems much freer when I consider it that way. I don't know.
[3:03:13 AM] graffist448: who could it belong to?
[3:09:31 AM] GOOTS Smith: Two possibilities. Me (personal) or Universal. Brings to mind this quote from some chief talking about how ridiculous it is to have ownership of the air or water. Chief Seattle, I think. Mind begets thoughts. Mind begets thoughts of self. Mind begets thoughts of self that thinks it owns the mind. Fucking insanity. Where do they get off? Third possibility. There is no "ownership" of the mind.
[3:10:35 AM] GOOTS Smith: Threaten the fan-damily with the rifles again. I feel like I'm jerking around here.
[3:11:12 AM] graffist448: what is a self concept made of?
[3:13:55 AM] GOOTS Smith: A collection of beliefs, thoughts, memories, desires, projections, judgements. Concepts. Self "concepts". thoughts. My name is GOOTS (nee GOOTSy). I'm a man (nee little boy).
[3:14:08 AM] graffist448: lol
[3:14:18 AM] graffist448: who does that belong to?
[3:14:47 AM] GOOTS Smith: fuckin hell
[3:14:57 AM] GOOTS Smith: um
[3:15:53 AM] GOOTS Smith: the self concept belongs to the self concept belongs to the self concept belongs to the self concept...
[3:15:58 AM] graffist448: hahahaha
[3:19:07 AM] GOOTS Smith: The self concept attempts to link itself to the physical body, the brain, the mind, the experiences of life etc. to give itself legitimacy amidst the self serving self conceptual loop it creates. It's a velcro snake.
[3:20:16 AM] graffist448: you're very close
[3:20:20 AM] graffist448: keep digging
[3:29:59 AM] GOOTS Smith: "I" am just a thought. "I" don't exist in reality, not in the way the keyboard does, or the REAL aardvark at the zoo, or the pen on my desk. This "I" lays claim or ownership to the directing of my thoughts, and my mind, even though it is itself a thought occuring WITHIN the very mind it claims to be directing. It's like a presumptuous private in the army, claiming power it doesn't have. Somehow, this "I" convinces "me", which is also "I", that "I" and "me" exist in reality and should be listened to. A thought happens and "I" claims it. A movement of the fingers on the keyboard happens and "I" claims "I'm typing". "I" needs to be right. "I" is super fGOOTSin' sensitive and needs validation and praise and cookies. "I" can't be seen with the naked eye. Even as thinking about this is happening, "I" tries to claim the thinking. "I'm thinking hard about this." "I" is trying to "get" something now.
[3:37:29 AM] GOOTS Smith: seems like there's this repulsion away from looking. "I" is trying to get me to think about this rather than look. Who does my self concept belong to? Well, if a Picasso painting belongs to Picasso until it's sold, then the concept of myself belongs to "me", which is the concept of myself. It seems more accurate to say it belongs to my PAST self concept. My current self concept belongs to my past self concept because it's a product of that.
[3:38:14 AM] GOOTS Smith: more shit i can't see
[3:38:41 AM] graffist448: whats the past self concept made of?
[3:39:24 AM] GOOTS Smith: more of the same. thoughts, memores, desires, projections, judgements, concepts. just minus a few recent additions.
[3:40:46 AM] graffist448: if the artist uses his brush to make impressions on a canvas.. what is brush that makes the impressions of memories, desires, projections...etc?
[3:41:38 AM] graffist448: what is the brush*
[3:42:38 AM] graffist448: that question is a little inaccurate but I think you'll get the gist of it
[3:44:47 AM] GOOTS Smith: the "I" doesn't have the power to create. It is just a thought. But it creates the impression of moving or rearranging what occurs to the mind beyond its power. "I" claims ownership of that which already exists.
[3:45:28 AM] GOOTS Smith: A memory just happens. An event happens. Mind recalls. "I" claims memory as its own.
[3:45:42 AM] graffist448: think physics, energy, chemistry....
[3:46:05 AM] graffist448: yes
[3:46:38 AM] graffist448: keep going down that thread. ignore what I said.
[3:47:10 AM] graffist448: what comes before the memory?
[3:48:28 AM] GOOTS Smith: the perception of an event. an impression made on the mind. time passes. the direct perception of the event is no longer available, mind relies on the memory of it only.
[3:52:14 AM] GOOTS Smith: "I" believe the event is happening to "me". "I" believe it makes an impression on "my" mind. Time passes in "my" life. The direct perception of the event is no longer available to "me", so "my" mind relies on "my"memory of it. My self concept is laying claim to the ownership of everything along the way. By the time I get to the memory, it's actually a part of "me". Helps define "ME".
[3:52:38 AM] GOOTS Smith: There's a giant sucking sound.
[3:53:09 AM] GOOTS Smith: squid-like tentacles wrapping around fGOOTSin everything that might give "me" life.
[3:53:38 AM] graffist448: what causes the perception of an event?
[3:53:59 AM] graffist448: what is acting on thy faculties
[3:56:50 AM] GOOTS Smith: focussed attention. directed awareness. awareness directed.
[3:57:05 AM] graffist448: think physics now
[4:01:40 AM] GOOTS Smith: location. relationship to the object being perceived. speed. point of view.
[4:04:11 AM] graffist448: universe -> galaxy -> solar system -> earth -> atmosphere -> envirnoment -> sensory perceptions -> central processor -> ?
[4:04:48 AM] GOOTS Smith: everything.
[4:05:33 AM] graffist448: what is next in the line?
[4:05:43 AM] graffist448: where the '?' goes?
[4:08:26 AM] GOOTS Smith: cells, electrons, quarks, ... pure energy, nothing. Nothing I can "see" anymore.
[4:08:42 AM] graffist448: mhm
[4:08:51 AM] graffist448: where is the "who"
[4:08:53 AM] graffist448: ?
[4:10:06 AM] GOOTS Smith: Can I bang my head against the wall now?
[4:10:11 AM] GOOTS Smith: um
[4:10:27 AM] graffist448: haha
[4:12:47 AM] GOOTS Smith: I am looking and what I can see for sure is a physical body with a brain that has thoughts, some of which constitute a self concept "me". The me is the who who claims dominion over the afforementioned physical body, brain, mind etc.
[4:13:41 AM] graffist448: your standing right at the edge
[4:13:59 AM] graffist448: keep going
[4:20:41 AM] GOOTS Smith: There is a strange survival instinct that seems built into this thought. My physical body has a birth and a death. The self concept seems to have a fear of death. And it is only a concept. If "I" doesn't exist anymore what happens to "me"? If there's no me, the keyboard is still here, my body is still here, my pen is still here, my thoughts are still here.
[4:21:20 AM] GOOTS Smith: In fact, if my body isn't here anymore, other people are, the rest of the planet is.
[4:21:36 AM] GOOTS Smith: What do I need "me" for?
[4:21:56 AM] graffist448: was there ever a 'me'?
[4:23:28 AM] GOOTS Smith: Now there's a twist. Access a thought memory to recall a concept thought from the past and prove its existence in reality now.
[4:23:36 AM] GOOTS Smith: aak
[4:26:28 AM] GOOTS Smith: with second cousin and nephew in firing line, I cannot PROVE there was ever a me. I have all kinds of memories "associated" by "me" as "me". "ME" claims me past. The fGOOTSin' past is all ME, baby! If it's about someone else, "I" don't care to remember it.
[4:28:07 AM] GOOTS Smith: I gotta look. Was there ever a me.
[4:28:32 AM] graffist448: lol
[4:29:04 AM] GOOTS Smith: I see shaky ground. Because I have to use the same unreliable and specious resources to view the past as I use to create ME.
[4:29:26 AM] graffist448: what is me mad of?
[4:30:04 AM] GOOTS Smith: thoughts, memories, ideals...
[4:30:46 AM] GOOTS Smith: so there was a self concept of "me", but there was not an ACTUAL me.
[4:31:24 AM] GOOTS Smith: in fact, the past is now entirely conceptual. so is the future.
[4:31:52 AM] GOOTS Smith: just this. ground zero
[4:33:35 AM] graffist448: are you sure?
[4:38:26 AM] GOOTS Smith:  even the thought of me is a concept. it's so far removed from reality it's not even funny. even the thought about me being a concept of me is a concept. nothing about me can possibly be real because I am a product of thought, not even thought itself. The past and future are subjects of thought too. It comes down to a question of WHAT IS REAL?
[4:41:06 AM] GOOTS Smith: science 101 like you said. there's my pen. am I sure. well, I can see it. I perceive my pen through sight. I can reach over and pick it up. I can feel the weight of it, hear it as it drops to the desk. Tomorrow I can remember picking up the pen and dropping it on my desk but that wouldn't be the REAL pen. That would be a conceptual pen in my mind. Where am I to pick up and drop on the desk?
[4:43:43 AM] GOOTS Smith: there has been a reliance upon thought as the primary perceptive crutch. Story in my head rather than action in the world now. It's a predominant reliance upon the unreal.
[4:44:43 AM] GOOTS Smith: It's been as if it is SAFER to live in my head than to live in the WORLD!
[4:45:32 AM] graffist448: who lives in the mind or the world?
[4:48:27 AM] GOOTS Smith: The thought of me.
[4:49:10 AM] GOOTS Smith: is this ever insipid
[4:55:40 AM] GOOTS Smith: There is nothing to live in either. There has to be some real certainty and conviction about this. There has to be clarity. This has to be known. seen. clearly. "I" is a concept. It is right there in the words "self concept". Not real. Therefore who lives in the mind if "I" am not real? )((*&(*)&IO:LKJ
[4:56:26 AM] GOOTS Smith: easy peasy look GOOTS
[5:00:45 AM] GOOTS Smith: back to basics. the mind is a collection of thoughts, memories etc etc etc. Nobody lives there. No fGOOTSin' hobbit. There appears to be a man living a life in the world.
[5:01:14 AM] GOOTS Smith: Is it time to start shootings some uncles and aunts. fritck!
[5:02:13 AM] graffist448: lol
[5:02:25 AM] graffist448: is there anyone?
[5:03:41 AM] GOOTS Smith: No. There is a thought arising that gets believed.
[5:03:53 AM] graffist448: are you sure?
[5:05:27 AM] GOOTS Smith: I cannot find "me" physically. I cannot find me via autopsy. I cannot find me by cutting open my head and squishing my fingers around in my brain. Aliens with a deep space probe couldn't find me if they tried.
[5:06:00 AM] GOOTS Smith: It's ALL thought.
[5:06:06 AM] GOOTS Smith: a thought.
[5:06:13 AM] GOOTS Smith: no thought. no me.
[5:06:22 AM] GOOTS Smith: no thought of me, no me.
[5:06:59 AM] GOOTS Smith: How could I be this temporary thing that just "comes to mind" every once in a while. That's not a person, that's a phantom.
[5:07:27 AM] graffist448: =)
[5:07:38 AM] graffist448: "I think therefore I am"... what says you?
[5:08:06 AM] GOOTS Smith: "I think I am therefore I'm not".
[5:09:26 AM] GOOTS Smith: moment.
[5:09:29 AM] graffist448: k
[5:16:11 AM] GOOTS Smith: There is an assumption in this quote that "I" am doing the thinking. And therefore, as a result, I exist. How could thinking be "DONE" by a product of thinking? And then have that be used to prove the existence of that which was created by thought!? There is nothing I can SEE that proves a direct relationship between thought and the existence of me, beyond there being a self concept.
[5:16:31 AM] GOOTS Smith: When I was a baby, I didn't have much to do with thought at all, and yet there was the baby GOOTSy.
[5:16:42 AM] GOOTS Smith: I didn't think therefore I was
[5:17:40 AM] GOOTS Smith: The birth of my self concept occurred sometime in my years as a toddler. I am...
[5:18:09 AM] graffist448: bravo!
[5:18:38 AM] graffist448: are you sure? is that true?
[5:26:33 AM] GOOTS Smith: Here's where this gets very tGOOTSy. There is a reliance upon unreliable tools to prove something. My memories. Although I can see this in my spouse's 2 year old grandson. There was just being, and then there was referencing others to be, in an ever increasing way. There is thought therefore there is existence? That doesn't seem to hold water either. There's a cause and effect thing here that I can't prove. It's a claim at best
[5:27:43 AM] GOOTS Smith: there's the thought "you cool, given how long we've been at this?"
[5:27:55 AM] graffist448: lol yea
[5:28:05 AM] GOOTS Smith: your a fGOOTSin rockstar
[5:28:08 AM] graffist448: its 520 am but I'm not sleepy lol
[5:28:16 AM] graffist448: lol thanks
[5:29:04 AM] graffist448: besides, your toes are in the water so I'm just waiting for you to fall in
[5:29:41 AM] GOOTS Smith: I know you won't but feel free to smash my head against the side of the pool and watch my limp body slink into the drink
[5:29:54 AM] graffist448: lol
[5:29:56 AM] graffist448: haha
[5:30:09 AM] GOOTS Smith: insipid shit, this
[5:32:03 AM] graffist448: are you thinking while you sleep?
[5:32:27 AM] GOOTS Smith: not sleeping. wondering how I can smash my own head against the side of the poo.l
[5:32:32 AM] graffist448: haha
[5:35:30 AM] graffist448: thinking has different categories. Recall of an event or peice of data. Analysis sort of like while doing math or making a tough decision. Emotional thinking where one makes a decision based on instinct or habit. Imagining the future, or being creative like when creating music or writing a poem.
[5:36:36 AM] graffist448: when one sleeps, is there conscious thought? which 'thinking' does the philosopher refer to in "I think therefore I am"?
[5:37:03 AM] GOOTS Smith: just realized that was a real qusetion before!
[5:37:21 AM] graffist448: hahaha
[5:37:23 AM] GOOTS Smith: are you thinking while you sleep? thought you were implying I was sleeping then
[5:37:28 AM] GOOTS Smith: oops
[5:37:34 AM] graffist448: its ok noo lol
[5:41:31 AM] GOOTS Smith: When asleep there is no conscious thought. (Although there's something called Lucid Dreaming where some people can apparently wake up in their dream and even direct events somewhat.. woo hoo!). Not a skill I have. the type of thinking the philosopher is referring to is existential, I believe. If one is capable of thinking, then one exists. That is NOT automatically true.
[5:43:12 AM] GOOTS Smith: In one sense, it's a pure logic puzzle. If this then that. But the possibility automatically exists If this then not that. If NOT this then that. If NOT THIS, then NOT that. Philopsopher is closed minded.
[5:44:21 AM] GOOTS Smith: By that, it is POSSIBLE, there is conscious thought when I'm asleep, and I'm just not aware of it, or I forget when the alarm goes off.
[5:45:08 AM] graffist448: lets say that when you black out
[5:45:22 AM] GOOTS Smith: ok. then no.
[5:45:25 AM] graffist448: you're not thinking for awhile
[5:45:34 AM] graffist448: in other words
[5:45:41 AM] graffist448: your literally unconscious
[5:46:09 AM] GOOTS Smith: therefore I'm not, by the philopsophers standards.
[5:46:22 AM] graffist448: no, while unconscious, does the body still exist? the mind, the memories, the knowledge, the habits, talents, values..etc
[5:46:29 AM] graffist448: now*
[5:48:01 AM] GOOTS Smith: body still there, yes. mind, memories, knowledge, habits, talents, values, all still there (unless I'm Jason Bourne). Then only selective memories. If I can't think of myself, is the rest of this ok? seems so, definitely.
[5:49:06 AM] graffist448: how does your level of clarity compare now to before?
[5:52:39 AM] GOOTS Smith: At the beginning I was sharper, feeling under the gun, and we were really focussing on physical reality. There seems to be struggling happening now.
[5:54:00 AM] GOOTS Smith: disappointment because there was the breath of fresh air comment which has maybe turned into a gruelly messy pile of )(()*^. That's the thought.
[5:55:22 AM] graffist448: this has been a really smooth ride let me tell you
[5:55:44 AM] graffist448: I've never seen anyone hit this so well the way you have
[5:56:27 AM] graffist448: look at how subjective reality is formed and exists within objective reality
[6:04:11 AM] GOOTS Smith: Subjective is point of view. Objective is actual. My story of me and the world has to adjust and form itself around what is true in objective reality...or else I can be in denial. Which would be a way to be within objective reality too. By ignoring it. Subjective reality is formed (beliefs, thoughts, assumptions, memories etc) as we've said as a result of events occuring, being precieved, and then categorized and labeled. Good/bad. Right/wrong. Just/Unjust. Subjective reality is thus an overlay upon objective reality after the fact, then carried forward into the future as bias and prejudice and slant, and overlaid upon current objective reality or future objective projected reality. Subjective reality is not universally shared. Objective reality is. Step in front of a speeding truck and it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in Jesus.
[6:04:13 AM] graffist448: objective = physical subjective = mental construction
[6:05:27 AM] graffist448: lol yessssssssss
[6:06:12 AM] graffist448: there is no 'you' or anyone for that matter. what says you?
[6:07:27 AM] GOOTS Smith: I need to be careful here not to simply parrot something I've read or heard...
[6:07:36 AM] graffist448: indeed
[6:12:08 AM] GOOTS Smith: If subjective reality is a mental construction and mental constructions are just that, made up shit in the mind, and "I" cannot be found anywhere in Objective Reality and must therefore reside in Subjective Land, where "I" was created as a product of thought, and glued together with memory and some beliefs, then logically, no me. If no me, no you, no anybody. Same thing going on everywhere. Made up "me" rampant. Subjective reality is conceptual. Made up. Mental construction. What makes this difficult is the strength or tenacity of a global cultural delusion of an entire species.
[6:14:09 AM] GOOTS Smith: Everybody is in on this. My mommy said "Hi GOOTSy". And I thought "I'm ME". I'm me is just a belief. What am I without the belief I'm me? There's actually an absence of the need for identification.
[6:15:21 AM] GOOTS Smith: I've thought there's been a NEED for ME
[6:15:52 AM] graffist448: so what's changed?
[6:16:01 AM] graffist448: from before we started to talk and now
[6:18:24 AM] GOOTS Smith: I'm actually surprised. There's this ambivalence developing over the need to have an identity. It's like I don't need it to be in the world
[6:18:57 AM] GOOTS Smith: In fact, it's very much in the way of me perceiving Objective Reality accurately.
[6:19:24 AM] GOOTS Smith: And my focus is shifting outwards more.
[6:20:05 AM] GOOTS Smith: Normally it seems to be "through me", and now that looks less attractive, and unnecessary.
[6:20:21 AM] GOOTS Smith: If I could I'd just shrug it off completely.
[6:20:30 AM] GOOTS Smith: It's in the way
[6:21:03 AM] graffist448: Excellent
[6:21:16 AM] graffist448: well my friend
[6:21:20 AM] graffist448: believe it or not
[6:21:33 AM] GOOTS Smith: time for breakfast?
[6:21:37 AM] graffist448: you're now walking passed the
[6:21:40 AM] graffist448: 'gate'
[6:22:11 AM] graffist448: and seeing everything as it is without a filter. at least... the filter will automatically fall away
[6:22:42 AM] graffist448: you're probably already noticing how the brain tries to answer the question "Who am I" habitaually
[6:22:50 AM] graffist448: habitually*
[6:23:12 AM] graffist448: if not now, then later on
[6:23:45 AM] GOOTS Smith: there's a shift in allegiance it seems. I don't even wanna delve in my head. it's like fakery
[6:23:57 AM] graffist448: haha yea
[6:23:59 AM] graffist448: yes
[6:24:00 AM] graffist448: you got it
[6:24:04 AM] graffist448: you fucking got it
[6:24:08 AM] graffist448: hahaha
[6:24:14 AM] graffist448: beautiful
[6:24:24 AM] graffist448: you mind if I blog this convo?
[6:24:42 AM] graffist448: I'll re-write your name to w/e you want for privacy if need be
[6:25:18 AM] GOOTS Smith: Ya. Call me GOOTS. That's stoog spelled bakcwards.
[6:25:30 AM] graffist448: haha ok
[6:25:34 AM] graffist448: perfect
[6:25:37 AM] graffist448: I'll post it now.
[6:25:44 AM] GOOTS Smith: where would I see your blog?
[6:25:52 AM] graffist448: suns coming out lol thats the sign its time for sleepy time
[6:26:01 AM] graffist448:
[6:26:29 AM] GOOTS Smith: awesome. I'll be in touch for sure. Incredibly generous of you to stick it through.
[6:26:39 AM] graffist448: your welcome
[6:26:47 AM] graffist448: its worth it
[6:26:52 AM] GOOTS Smith: sweet dreams. :)
[6:26:59 AM] graffist448: haha thanks you too

----------------------------  couple days later
GOOTS Smith: Today I was driving along and asked "Is an entity necessary to see what I'm seeing?" And I proceeded to have this wide open, spacious experience of my surroundings for about 20 minutes.

[7/4/2011 1:48:03 PM] graffist448: =)
[7/4/2011 1:48:08 PM] graffist448: thats zenning out
[7/4/2011 1:48:09 PM] graffist448: awesome
[7/4/2011 1:49:05 PM] GOOTS Smith: Nick. Do you think a second session would be in order? Are you open for that or would you recommend that...or should I simply be allowing things to play out...?
[7/4/2011 1:49:37 PM] GOOTS Smith: I'm now taking notice of the things my "me" has no control over.
[3:40:02 AM] graffist448: I've never done a second session before
[3:40:08 AM] graffist448: I'm not sure what else to 'go over'
[3:40:27 AM] graffist448: what I do recommend it picking up Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now"
[3:40:33 AM] graffist448: The audio book is what I listened to
[3:40:36 AM] graffist448: its excellent
[3:40:54 AM] graffist448: I was thinking today about when i was first liberated
[3:41:10 AM] graffist448: and I remember how I would notice everything
[3:41:18 AM] graffist448: The thinking that happens so naturally within the mind
[3:41:33 AM] graffist448: at some point I'd be able to think without feeling like I was the thinker
[3:41:55 AM] graffist448: emotions
[3:42:03 AM] graffist448: understanding why they arise
[3:42:12 AM] graffist448: how they are atteched to subjecitve impressions of reality
[3:42:19 AM] graffist448: how it all just is
[3:42:47 AM] graffist448: I'd lay awake at night thinking about how there could possibly be a 'me'
[3:42:58 AM] graffist448: and I came to the conclusion that there would ahve to be just one single thing
[3:43:07 AM] graffist448: and that's obviously not the case
[3:43:24 AM] graffist448: there would have to be a void and then just 1 thing
[3:43:37 AM] graffist448: then I realized.. thats pretty much the universe
[3:44:01 AM] graffist448: then the realization was that this body is just one form of the universe
[3:44:11 AM] graffist448: it's the universe experiencing its self
[3:49:49 AM] graffist448: only its injected with a natural delusion that is plaguing 6 billion people (I think thats the estimated world population) on earth to suffering no matter the circumstances. Whether in plenty or with little, people suffer more of less from the same psychopathic issue.. the delusion of self.

Also, if you really want to deepen the state, the realization... pick up a book on chemistry and biology. When I took those two classes I was astounded at how that knowledge made the knowing even more deep and profound.

I must say that the sensation of realizing meaninglessness is a scary one. But it goes away when you decide to take charge of what things mean and begin to take the steering wheel of your life in a way that you might not have realized you could before. If you haven't yet.

Things like thinking positively don't do anything magical but they do increase the possibility for certain things to happen. Its all probablilities. Its fucking mathematical. lol Things like the 'self fulfillin prophecy' make more sense with this realization.

I mean... how could anyone argue that? Its not philosophy. Its not religion. Its not mystical or magical. Its the very fabric of reality.

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